Maximizing Your Audiobook's Potential: A Guide to Working with Narrators with Alice Sockett

Today we're talking about working with voice actors and narrators.When you are getting your audiobook done, we're going to cover everything from what it's like in the beginning, what to expect and how to find a voice actor through platforms like acx.We're going to get into what exactly a voice actor and audiobook producer does and common mistakes and pitfalls that you can avoid to, well, keep those problems from popping up. Here we go. Welcome back to the Killer Pros podcast. I'm your host, Tanner and I am joined today in the virtual studio by Alice Socket.She is an award winning audiobook narrator. She is the person I went to when I wanted to learn this industry. I actually found her on Instagram.If you've been following the show for a while, you know that I decided, hey, I want to do my own audiobooks. I'm set up to podcast, it can't be very much different.And got into corporate narration and found her through Instagram, started subscribing, joined her discord and I learned enough not just to do my own books but to actually launch into a new career. So, Alice, welcome to the show and thanks.

Oh, thank you so much for having me. Tana. It's really exciting to hear that you is such a success story.Having sort of followed some of those tips and yeah, moved into this side of the career.

It's a lot of fun. I love doing audio and it's a great bridge. So tell us a little bit about your journey into audiobook narration. What got you set up here?

So my journey was pretty left field.I worked my whole life in very kind of corporate roles in university, higher education advancement roles and yeah, I had all these goals and I was very kind of KPI focused and I had this list of things that I wanted to complete by the time I was 40. And then last year I turned 40 and realized that I'd completed them all and I actually wasn't really happy.And what I really wanted to do was reconnect with the sort of the creative literary side of my brain and just do something, do something a bit more interesting and a bit more fulfilling.So I, yeah, I decided to just have a go at audiobook narration thinking that it was going to be, I'd maybe get one project I might have to work for free first and it would take, you know, it would be a long process. And I, I signed up to do a course and I found a website called ACX.com which is the sort of the pipeline to audible.And I looked on there And I just thought I'd whiz in an audition for a job. And then I got offered it and suddenly, you know, this sort of pipe dream became a reality without me really knowing how it happened.And because I'm just so delighted with the fact that I was able to do this and it is a feasible thing for, for normal people like me to do as a career and something that I never considered during, you know, my 20 year professional career. Yeah, I've been just sharing how I did it online and I've sort of accrued a really amazing group of people who are also doing this.So it's sort of like the next generation of new human audiobook narrators, which is really exciting.

The success you had on Instagram is super interesting.So as indie authors in crime and horror, that plays a huge role in the authors wanting to move into this full time or have it be like a big chunk of their earnings in a more professional setup. Was there anything you did there on Instagram that got you going?Because I remember when I first found you, after I first started following you, there was this explosion and I was just like, I saw your follow numbers and stuff just shoot up. I was like, oh my God, what did that. It seemed like you were just being authentic and people really connected with that.

Yeah, it was a shock for me as well, I'll be honest. So I started off, I didn't have an Instagram account until Christmas, you know, just gone. And we're what now? Mid July?And I only set it up because one of the authors that I've been working with, it was a royalty share agreement on the book and the book wasn't selling. And, you know, she and I had a chat and she said, oh, it'd be really helpful if you created an Instagram account.And then we could kind of cross post stuff and people really like kind of narrator content. And I thought, oh, okay, you know, this will, this'll be, you know, a string to my bow in terms of me advertising my services to authors.And it'll also sell the book that, you know, I get a royalty share of. So I set it up and I sort of. I just decided I was going to post every day or as near as to every day.So I think that was the key thing was that I just started posting every day a video. And some of them were very dubious at the beginning.I spent quite a lot of time at the beginning sort of saying to people, what do you want to hear from a narrator? I have no idea. I don't know if I'd watch this content, you know, help steer what I do. So.And I was just, I was only expecting to get maybe a few hundred people and it would be very kind of intimate. So I've always approached my videos as just me chatting to one person who really likes audiobook. And then, yeah, it's gone up to.I think I've got, I've got over 300,000 followers now across Instagram and Facebook, mainly on Instagram. I think I've got 280,000 or something on Instagram, which, yeah, it's just been really strange.And I think the shift really happened when I went from just trying to get views and follows and I just started telling people things that I would have wanted to know when I was starting out as an audiobook narrator. So I think I started off with the account really focusing towards advertising my services to prospective authors.And then it started shifting to, you know, educating other narrators and authors in what this process looks like. Because it's, it's something that, it feels like it's, it's under a bit of a, a bit of a shroud. It's, it's, you know, it's, it's a bit of a mystery.Nobody knows how I got into this. I, I barely know how I got into this. And yeah, it's, it's, it's a mystery to a lot of people.So a lot of people love the idea of this job, listen to audiobooks and sort of think, well, I like books and I like reading. I wonder how that works. And I think it, yeah, I think it just, it just really excited people.And I think also the story of me quitting a very well paid job that was just making me really anxious and now sort of transforming my life to a, you know, a life where I walk my dog on the beach for a couple of hours every morning and then, you know, maybe go to a coffee, a coffee shop and prepare a manuscript for the rest of the day or sit in my little padded booth and, and just read out loud all day. You know, it's, it's an absolute dream job if you like books.So I think talking about that, you know, lots of people kind of went, oh, you know, I'm, you know, approaching midlife and I'm not really happy with my current situation and I, and I want to do something different and just finding out that it was a possibility. Yeah. And also I shared all of the information I possibly could and continue to do so for free.So I never set out to do this as A sort of influencer business opportunity at all. I did not ever think I was going to monetize in any way.And the only reason I then set up the sort of community that I did on the side of my Instagram profile, which is because so many people were asking me, me for coaching and more advice and would I, you know, would I review their samples and things that I sort of thought, oh, actually, you know, this is taking up so much of my time that I need to create a framework where, you know, in terms of my weekly time, it's going to work for me. So I do a live now every Wednesday for that group of new audiobook narrators.And we've also got this great discord where people are able to then troubleshoot from one another. So there are always people that are a few weeks ahead of you in that, you know, in.In the process of, you know, finding a job, delivering the work, working with authors. And so there's. There's loads of really good advice on there, which is.And I'm still learning, you know, I've only been doing this for a year and a half, so it's. It's still really new to me. I am not an expert.

Well, like, that's the thing. I feel like a lot of people make a mistake when they get a professional coach.They go for that person who's like, out there and like, so many steps ahead of them. And I did. When I first started into voice acting and when I first started into writing, I went with a guy who had this big school.I'm glad I did because I got this massive overview of the industry. I learned how to set up all the audio equipment and stuff. But I really needed somebody who was like, nine months ahead of me or. Yeah.Or like, what's that very next step I need to take that's still fresh with this person who's dealing with the same problems I'm going to deal with. I got more out of that than I did with anything else that I've done on even the writing side of storytelling.And that and having those people inside of the group is amazing.And we're going to talk about Speaks and Squeaks later, but whenever I have an issue, I just check the group first to see if anybody else has had that issue and if they've dealt with it. If they have, great. If they haven't, I'll deal with it and post something in there.

Exactly.

Yeah. It's amazing. So we've talked about the audio side, your background, getting into it. You've Worked with several authors I have.Are there common issues that you know, actually let's back it up. Brand new author, very first audiobook. What should they expect with working with.

A voice actor for a new indie author? I think often price is really sensitive. So you've basically got three options in terms of the pricing arrangement with a potential narrator.So you can either pay per finished hour where you retain all of the rights and all of the royalties to your audiobook. So you'd agree with your narrator based on the anticipated number of hours that the audiobook's going to take.So the end hours of the audiobook, so say, say your book was 54,000, 54,000 words. That would be probably a six hour audiobook. And then you'd negotiate a per finished hour with your audiobook narrator and they do everything.You will pay them for those six hours. It's usually about $250 per finished hour. That's the SAG Aftra sort of recommended minimum fee.Some people are willing to work for a bit less than that. Some more experienced narrators will charge more than that for the per finished hour.And yeah, and your narrator on ACX.com Specifically, that's where I do all of my work.They are responsible for all of the sound editing, the mastering, making sure that you have a broadcast ready, clean, beautiful sounding audiobook that meets all of the ACX criteria that's on them. They do that whole package for you.So you need to bear in mind that all of that work is included in those hours and that it takes them a lot more than an hour of work to deliver a finished hour of, of audio. So you know, it can, for, for a new narrator, it can take 10 plus hours to deliver an hour of audio.For someone like me, it's more like three to four.And that's, you know, and that's really going for it because with a professional narrator, you know that you're, they're going to be offering you a complete pre read of your book. You'd be having, they'd be making notes, they'd be planning all the characterizations of all the different characters.They'd then want to sense check that with you. So they'd be wanting to have a video call or a call with you before they start.Then you're going to have a 15 minute checkpoint with them where they deliver you the first 15 minutes or a 15 minute check point, but a 15 minute section of the book. You get to listen to that sense check whether you're happy with their direction of travel. If you're not.They're then going to do potentially a couple of rounds of amends of that to make sure you're happy.Then they're going to record every single chapter in the book, edit every single chapter, master it to meet the ACX sound requirements, upload them, you listen to them, and then you've got another couple of rounds of amends with them. If there are any pickups that they need to do, there's a huge amount of work for them. Them.So per finished hour is the sort of the primary way that audiobook narrators get paid. For some indie authors, they just can't afford that.And you might be willing to or keen to find a narrator who is willing to do that work for you in exchange for a 50% share of the audiobook's royalties.That tends to be something that newer narrators are willing to do rather than more experienced narrators because it's a way for them to get some narration credits, some experience. So it means that you'd be working potentially with someone who's also quite new.So that's something else that you need to weigh up as you decide sort of what. Which sort of contract to go for. The easy thing about the royalty share is that ACX and Audible deal with all the payments.So, you know, it's just done for you. They calculate the royalties and those get sent directly into your account and the account of the narrator who's set up with them.However, it's only worth the narrator doing that work if they have some sort of evidence that your book is going to sell, because otherwise they're doing it for free. And you, you can't expect somebody to do, you know, potentially 40 plus hours of work for free.So there's also another contract option which is royalty share plus, which is the one that I like the best, where you've got the 50% royalties with them, you're splitting the share of the royalties and you also offer an upfront payment per finished hour as well.And you know, that might only be $80 per finished hour rather than $250, which makes it more immediately affordable for you, but it's enough to cover the time of the narrator and they've, you know, they can potentially make some money on the royalties. So that's the one that I love because.Yeah, because I know my time's being covered and I have some real skin in the game to promote the book and to, you know, to see it do really, really well. Yeah, I don't know if you've done Royalty share or perfinished hour? Tanner, how that tends to work for you?

I've done primarily royalty share and I've moved into the perfinished hour because I'm like, I know what I'm doing now.

Exactly.

And so that's what I'm focusing on. I like the royalty share. Plus, especially with indie authors, I enjoy doing horror. If the. I'll go through and I'll look for the 250.Was it 200, 300 per finished hours? And then I'll go through and I'm like, I'm not really seeing anything I want to do here.And then I'll go down a tier and I'm like, okay, this looks kind of cool. And I'll check the author out and we vet authors. So if you're listening and you're one of those AI guys or you're book spamming, we do go through.We check your backlog, we look at your reviews and how things are selling before. We'll make sure you're the rights holder and then we'll move forward with it.If I'm going to do like a royalty share, I'm looking at does this speak to me and does it look fun having a fun story that is done and edited and doesn't have a whole lot of problems with it? That's how you're going to get somebody on a royalty share.

So I'm still, even though I'm quite experienced now and I'm, you know, I'm very booked up, which is a brilliant position to be in.I'm working with one particular author who's absolutely amazing and I'm doing, I'm purely doing royalty share with him because the price point was just an issue for him. But I love the books. So they're these sort of domestic thrillers.They're six standalone books, which I really liked because I think if you've got, you know, if you've got a series of books that require, you know, a series of books of the same characters essentially, or the same storylines for a narrator, the further you get through those books, there's naturally going to be a tailing off of new listeners because they will have had to have got through all of the initial ones. Whereas this six book series that I'm doing with this chapter, you know, they're all standalone.But the great thing about that is that I'm getting royalty share for all six. The first one has sold really, really well. I'm really excited. I'm working on the second one at the moment.But We've already had a chat about, we're going to. Because there's an initial sort of peak when the audiobooks sell and then you never really know what the tale is going to look like on that.So we've sort of agreed that we'll, we'll release a book, we'll wait for it to tail off, then we'll release the next one and we'll do that with all of them. And we're hoping that with each book the other books are going to get a bit more, you know, a bit more movement, a bit more traction.But then after we've done those six, we've already pre agreed that we're going to bundle them and sell that as a six book deal on acx, on Audible. And that's where he's done this with another audiobook narrator.And that's where the money's going to be because people on Audible want to get the best possible value from their credit. I get one credit a month on Audible and I want it to be a good book.I want it to be really, really well narrated and I want it to be long enough to justify my, you know, if I've got a choice between, you know, a six book series all bundled together for one credit or a three hour book with an AI voiced narrator, I know which I'm going to choose. So yeah, I'm excited about that. It's gonna be quite a lot of work to get to that stage.But, but the fact that we've already had that conversation equally, the reason that I agreed to do the royalty share in the first place with that rights holder was that we had, we had a call before I even signed a contract.I had a chat with him to talk about his marketing plan for the audiobook because I need to know that it's going to sell to justify me putting that work in. And he had a plan. He was going to do paid Facebook ads and he has done those.He's got a really good proven track record that if he puts a certain amount into Facebook ads, he will sell more than double the cost of what he's put in. And it's just, you know, it's just basic maths. So I felt confident that that would work.And I also know that because I have, you know, this amazing audience on Instagram, I can also push those books there. So I'm doing quite a lot my end now in terms of promotion of my royalty share books, which is brilliant. It's a win for everybody.

I might have you give me his name So I can get him on the podcast to talk about how he's marketing there.

Oh, no, he's fantastic. He's absolutely fantast. He's fantastic. Yeah.

Oh, man. Yeah. Being a voice actor and narrator, it's the same amount of work that you put into writing the book, at least.And I know, first book, it takes years for a lot of people to get that knocked out. But as a voice actor, it was two years before I started booking work.I found you about back in February, and that's where I really started to book stuff. Yeah, we're putting in the same amount of work. We would also like to get paid and we'll get involved with that. Marketing.I like making marketing plans. Similar background to you. I was a business owner.I was a licensed private investigator and legal investigator for 15 years working high profile cases. Everybody looked at me like I was insane when I was like, I'm done. Bye. Can't do it anymore.

Right?

Yeah. And stepped over and was like, I told myself, I'm going to write books and we're going to write mysteries and horror when I'm finished with this.And that's what I'm gonna do.

There are two kinds of people, aren't there? There are the kind of people who just get it when you're like, I'm gonna quit it all and I'm gonna be a writer.And they're like, yes, I want to do that too. And then there are. There are the people who just think you're absolutely bonkers. Yeah.And what's amazing is that when you put yourself out there, as you're probably finding with this podcast, when you share like, that is who I am and what I'm doing, you find your people. You find all these people who are like, yes, we want to do this too. And that's really kind of life affirming, actually. Yeah, I love it.

It's a. Yeah, it's a weird time. Everybody's like, you know what? I would rather be happy and make a little less than, yeah, absolutely. Especially those who are artfully minded.So we've covered authors, getting audiobooks done, what to expect there when you're working with authors, what kind of things throw a wrench into the machine. Whether it's writing styles where something's just kind of. This feels really weird in my mouth.And I don't think somebody would talk like this or like, what holds up the process for you?

Oh, there's so many things. So I guess if we go right back to the beginning, if an author is Using AI, that is such a turn off. I will just.If, if I can tell that a manuscript has been written by AI or has that feel, even if you've written it yourself, but it has that feel and it gives me the ick, I will just cancel the contract. I don't want to be associated with that.And one of the big indicators that I know that lots of the other narrators I work with, it's a big turn off for them is if you're using a cheap AI cover for your audiobook. I know it's cheaper, but it just indicates that what's inside the book is going to be rubbish.And it's, it's such, it's such a waste when you have put in so much blood, sweat and tears to make this beautiful book and you're expecting a narrator to put in a similar amount of effort to make it sound nice. If you're.Then, if the first thing that your audience is seeing is an AI image, it's, you know, it's just, it's not going to kind of open any doors for you. So I'd really recommend that first off, secondly, when you are advertising your audiobook on ACX or whatever platform, it's really helpful if you.So firstly, narrators are really concerned, quite rightly so, about having their voices cloned by AI. So we don't want to be sharing long, long audiobook narration samples with strangers because that is what you are to us at the moment.You know, it's a risk for us every time we upload a sample of our voices. So we like to keep our narration clips under four minutes.So that's the first thing is don't expect more than a four minute clip in terms of audition, both from the point of view that these are, you know, people are auditioning and spending, you know, it takes more than four minutes to do a four minute audition.There's quite a lot of prep involved by the voice actor and you should be able to kind of get a feel based on that for who you want to voice your book. So that's one thing is you can put a longer bit of text up, bit of manuscript up, but don't expect them to read more than four minutes worth.And don't be upset if they don't. It's nothing personal, we're just trying to protect ourselves.Similarly, lots of us will have disclaimers wording in our cover notes or in our profiles saying, I do not consent to you using this recording for anything other than the sort of stated purpose.That's to cover ourselves as well because there are people, you know, the people in our group who have had their voices cloned, who have found their voice on websites being sold as an AI tool. So we really want to avoid that.

Sorry to cut into that. There's also another reason that a lot of us aren't just doing audiobook work.We're also doing corporate narration and that's elearning and government contracting for elearning. It's coming out now that there's like a. They're in the contracts. They're asking has your voice ever been cloned?Have you ever allowed your voice to be cloned? And you will not get the job if you did because it's a security issue with DoD contractors and stuff.So there's a reason we don't want to be involved with that.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So you are trying to find the perfect voice for your book and you want a voice that's going to be able to do your characters justice.It's so helpful if you give us a few notes.Not like loads of micromanage y stage directions but just to say I always thought this character would be Scottish with a gruff voice or this character has a sarcastic tone or you know, it's, it's really helpful for us to have that steer because if we're just getting a four minute chunk of manuscript with no context, you're not going to see the best we can do that will fit your vision. So yeah, it's, you're going to get a much better result if you just put some, some pointers in there. Also put what your plan is for the marketing.If you're going to, if it's going to be a royalty share book, you know, if you've got a hundred thousand followers on something or if you've got some sort of track record of selling book, it doesn't even have to be audiobooks, but just your book selling your books, being well respected, you know, put some links into that or refer to those in your, you know, in your blurb on your listing and that will encourage more or more narrators when you are writing your book. Loads and loads of authors write to be read but not read out loud.So you don't need to find places to breathe when you're just reading something to yourself. But when you're narrating it can be slightly different.So have a go when you're in that sort of drafting stage with your own book of just reading a few of your sentences, particularly actually the dialogue because it. Try saying it out loud. Because that's the bit that if we're just reading sort of like background narration, we can sort of put our own breaths in.But the dialogue really has to be written to orally sound like a human being is saying it. Otherwise it's just really difficult for us to act it. Yes, I would definitely say that.Please, please, if we ask you to meet with us, take that opportunity that is going to save us both time.So when I have my kind of kickoff pre meeting with an author, the key things I want to know are any ideas they've got for sort of vocal qualities of the characters. Like, tell me about the characters. Is there anything that I'm not going to get from the manuscript around, like your vision, like, tell me who.One of the best authors I worked with gave me sort of real world examples of who those characters are. So I had like, Evil Nigella Lawson was one of them. I imagine her as an Evil Nigella Lawson and I was like, oh, I can see her, I can hear her.I know exactly what you're after. So if you can be that clear, you're obviously not going to get a perfect Evil Nigella Lawson.But it just helps steer us so that we can meet your needs, really. So we'd be wanting to find that out. We'll also want to know how to pronounce the names of your characters. You will know how to pronounce them.But yeah, if you've got a character called S A, R A, you know, is that Sarah or is it Sara? It can be pronounced either way in the uk, things like that.If you're just willing to run through them with us or even send us a voice note with you pronouncing them. If there's any element of fantasy in your work, we need to get. Yeah, we need to know from you those pronunciations.Because if you've, if you know, if this word has come from your own head or if I did a fantasy book and there were like races and tribes in this world that didn't have normal, you know, human accents, so I was creating whole new accents. So it's like, is that going to sound, you know, British or Welsh or Scottish or, you know, American? Like, what. Where. Where are we going with this?So just a steer on that is really helpful. Yeah, that's. And probably the biggest, the biggest issue I have had has been the. Once I've.Once I've recorded the book, it's been the process by which the amends are given to me, the kind of the pickups. So firstly, Particularly if you're working with a relatively new audiobook narrator.So on a royalty share basis or, you know, or a kind of cut price basis, they really, really need you to listen to the whole audiobook because they may have missed something. You know, the, the margin for human error is really high and they don't want to, you know, they're not deliberately missing anything.But sometimes we, when we read things out loud, we sort of skim read by mistake and say things that aren't there and we don't realize we've done it. So it's really helpful if you check that.But also, you know, there might be a click left in, or there might be a, a cough left in that we've just missed when we've been editing. So, yes, read that and when. Listen to that rather.And when you are noting any changes that you want us to make, please give us the chapter number and the timestamp because there is no way of searching an audio file for, you know, that part where Melissa says to Steve that, you know, he's an ape. You know, it's, it's like you can't just type, you know, it's not like you can't do a control F on a sound file.So then you end up having to look through the, look through the manuscript and find it, and then you have to find that on the sound file. And it. I have lost, like days doing pickups where a rights holder hasn't given me the timestamps.So that is, that is the most helpful thing you can do is just be really, really clear about your amends and you don't have to apologize if, you know, if there are things that are wrong. You know, you don't have to sort of pussyfoot around and keep your narrator happy, but just clarity on what you want, what you want changed.You know, you said this at this minute in this chapter or this second in this chapter, and it needs to say this, you know, the, you know, and the clearer you can be, you know, a spreadsheet where, you know, chapter number, timestamp, what you said, what you should have said, that is the most helpful thing we can have. And then we can just run through it and we can do it really quickly. Yes, that's the big one, really, for me.

So for, like, not just for writers, but for audiobook narrators and people getting into it who might be listening to this episode, would you recommend at the onset, when you are onboarding your authority, to already have your sheet and just send that over there with stuff, it's like, hey, if you would. This is the sheet that I use. Whenever you have a pickup, just put the time what the issue was and I'll find it.

Yeah, that's absolutely ideal. Absolutely perfect. Yeah, yeah, brilliant.

Sweet. All right, so that's a lot, guys. Yeah. Just make sure the book is well written. Have it professionally edited. That's the biggest thing.The biggest headache that I've run into is when I go through a book. I'm a writer and I do feedback and beta.I'm not going to call myself a developmental editor, but I'll go through and I find myself being taken out of the performance or out of the first read through because I'm like, if this would happen right here, we would have a much stronger story or we've got some like gobbledygook here that a good line editor would have fixed. That would be much more comfortable for me to say. And it's. Yeah, it goes a long way. Just have it professionally edited.

Equally, you've got this amazing opportunity because you are going to have somebody who loves books, because all audiobook narrators love books. You're going to have somebody closely reading your entire manuscript and making notes before they even speak to you.You issue them the contract, they accept, you upload the manuscript and then they will spend a whole day going through your manuscript. Ask them if you. If they spot any errors. They will have spotted errors.They would be delighted for the kind of an open door where they can give you a list of, oh, I'm not sure if this word was quite right. And you know, if you can say to them, oh, my God, you know, if you spot anything, I'd love to know. So they don't feel awkward saying it.That's one of the things that loads of the Speaks and Squeaks group, you know, they'll sort of say to me, oh, God, I've spotted this error. I don't know how to bring it up, I don't know how to mention it, but equally, I don't want to say it if it's wrong.So, yeah, you've got this opportunity where they can proofread your manuscript for you before they start recording it. Take it.

Yes. Yeah, take that feedback. We're in the authors.We can go in and update the book on kdp, draft of digital, wherever it's at, fix that and have it go out. That is an amazing opportunity. So the Speaks and Squeaks community, we've brought it up a couple times. Tell us a little bit about that.

Oh, it's amazing. It's absolutely ridiculously amazing.So, yeah, I set up this community that it would have been incredibly useful for me when I was starting out, beginning of last year because I just wanted to, I, you know, it's, it's quite a lonely job actually. You know, sitting and reading all day. It's a lovely job and I wanted that peace and that freedom.But I imagine similarly to indie authors, you know, you're on your own a lot, just having a group of like minded narrators who, you know, professionally and socially want to chat.And we've got sort of different channels for, you know, really specific things around equipment and, you know, meeting sound criteria and how to deal with this, that and the other. And then we've also got channels around, you know, just socializing and chat. And that has been amazing.So, so I started off just with like, you know, a couple of dozen narrators and we just chat on Instagram and then that's, that's blown up as well. So I think I've got about 900 speaks and squeaks subscribers now, which is mad. But yeah, they're the most amazing community.And so I set them on my weekly live every Wednesday.I now set a weekly challenge and those are nudging those new narrators towards just pushing themselves where it maybe feels a little bit uncomfortable to just do that next thing. So this week I'm pushing them to have a go at duet narration.So that's where you've basically got two different narrators performing two different characters. And the character voice that they are doing will be consistently them throughout. So there's sort of, there's three, three types of narration.It's probably worth explaining these actually to your authors. So, so you've got your single narrator. That's the cheapest because you're only paying one person. It's by far the most straightforward.It's the one I actually like listening to the most because it feels most like being read to because it's just one voice and that person will do all the voices, all the characters, and depending on how good they are, you know, it's absolutely fantastic. Then you've got dual narration.So that's where you've usually got like, you know, in maybe a romance, you've got a male main character and a female main character if it's a, you know, hetero romance. And there'll be chapters dedicated to each of those characters. So if it's the man's chapter, he will also do the woman's voice within his chapter.But it'll be coming from his point of view. And he'll be reading that bit.And then you'll have a chapter from the, you know, the female main character's point of view so that you get two different voices there, but a lot less editing from the narrator's point of view because they just take those chapters on themselves. Then you have duet, which is by far the most complicated and costly because you're clipping in different voices in different sections.Tanner, have you done any duet?

Not yet. So Dangerous Whispers comes out in October and we're going to do dual narration. I'll be doing Ted's chapters.Kristen, my partner, she is a stage trained actress and dancer and is super excited about doing this. She's going to be doing Darcy's chapters. And so I'm building out this studio.I've got the podcast studio that's actually outside of the booth, which we have Samsung Q2U microphones that run into this little thing that I'm using here. I am building a complete soundproofed radio quality control room on the other side of this wall here and I'm putting another booth in there.So once that is finished, we will start duetting. And I'm hoping that since we'll have two booths going, we're able to play off each other and it'll cut down the editing on the duet.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.I was blown away by how much work the duet and also multicast, that's yet another step where you've got lots of different characters and that becomes like a radio play. You know, that's like a full, a full production, often with sound effects and things.And every time you add an additional voice, an additional layer of effects, it's just much more work for the person who's doing that. It's indescribably more work. The editing side for narrators, I had no idea.I thought before I started that I would hit a button and I'd just read and hopefully not make any mistakes and then stop and then I'd do it again and then I'd send it to somebody to deal with. And then I found out that actually that's, that's not, that's not what happens. So I use a dog clicker.I'm just gonna click it in my mic, which is the sort of, the most basic method of sort of recording and editing where I have the sound wave on my computer. I use Audacity software and I can recognize the sound wave that is my voice. And if I make a mistake, I do a click.That click will mark the sound wave with a different shape. It's sort of two vertical lines. And then when I go back, I have to go back manually, look for those clicks.And then I can see that I've made an error there or I've broken wind or something dreadful and I need to remove something from the track and then I have to go in, listen, remove that and make the other bits sort of meet and not sound jarring. It is time consuming. So that's the first stage after you've recorded. So you record, you click often.If it's a 20 minute chapter, I'll end up with an hour of audio because I've done so many repeats and so many clicks that I'll have to sort of manually listen to and edit. And then the sound has to meet the ACX criteria. And there are sort of three different hoops you have to jump through on that point.You know, none of the, you know, none of the noises can be too high, none of the levels can be too high. The overall room tone needs to be a certain, you know, lowness and your overall sound has to be a certain volume.So where you're then having to tweak those and make sure that your chapters are all sounding similar to one another. So it's a huge amount of work, but I'm very passionate about it because it is just the best work and I would recommend it to anyone.

That's what you want with a voice actor.You want someone who cares about it as much as you care about your writing because it is a profession and it is an art form all to itself and it brings something to you. A lot of authors right now are looking at doing their own books. That's what got me into it. I wanted to do my own books to try to save a little money.And when I first started, I was like, okay, an audiobook. I'll be fine with the podcast setup to get a Q2U, a dynamic microphone, basic podcasting microphone to sound audiobook quality.I would not be able to get that microphone to do that without the classes in audio engineering and sound waves and sounds, physics of sound to pad that room out and build all of this.I ended up upgrading to this microphone and then setting all this stuff up because it was just easier on the editing side to have something that was set up all the time that sounds exactly the same every time I sit in front of it. It's a lot of work. If you enjoy it, do it. There's three types of authors.I can't remember who said this, but when it comes to doing audiobooks, they're the authors who can and should. They have the passion for the audio and they're great writers. There are some that can and shouldn't.Yeah, they got the talent to do it, but they don't really have the passion or drive behind it. You're not going to sit for 5 hours per 1 hour of audio to get it recorded. And then there are those who can't and shouldn't.You don't have the acting chops for it. It's not going to sound good no matter what you do. Hire a voice actor.I've even considered going through for Dangerous Whispers and getting someone else in here to do it just so I can focus on writing the next book in the series.

Yeah, play to your strengths.

Yep.

I mean, obviously you should be doing it, but.

Thank you.

I think one of the things that I've noticed with the authors that I'm speaking to is lots of authors don't listen to audiobooks, so they don't necessarily know what good sounds like. And I think there's this expectation that the aim is to just find someone with a nice sounding voice and they just need to read it.And you know, it is not that it is acting. Yes, if somebody's got a beautiful sounding voice, that is a great start.But they also need to be able to translate the written word into something that sounds like it's coming out of their head, you know, and it needs to feel personal and intimate and conversational. That's what people want to listen to.They want to listen to someone chatting to them rather than someone sort of orating and sounding very professional or kind of giving a presentation. That's not, that's not something you want to sit in the car and listen to on a long journey down the motorway.So, yeah, I would strongly recommend that if you are thinking about hiring someone for an audiobook, you listen to the kind of the Good, Bad and the Ugly of audiobooks. You know, look, you don't even have to buy the audiobooks. Go to Audible. You can listen to like the five minute samples of each book.Look at some of the books that have got the best ratings for audio. You know, what, what is it that is making people love those? Look at the worst ones.You know, lots and lots of authors now are considering similarly to AI, you know, book art and covers. They're also considering AI voices. But the audiobook listeners will not buy your book. It just, there's, there's.And you know, I know I'm saying this, I'VE got some skin in the game here, but if you try and listen to a virtual voiced book, it's, you know, I. Yeah. That you'll see the reviews on them are absolutely diabolical. People. People don't want them. And you'll be doing yourself a disservice.

To get that to sound good. And when I say good, I mean passable. With AI voices. As an author, you're going to spend more time tweaking it and prompting and going.Because I've talked to authors who have done it and I played around with it just so that I could talk about it, and it is a nightmare to get that to sound natural. So it is quicker to hire a voice actor. And a lot of times, especially with the rising prices, it's probably going to end up being cheaper.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKS and SQUEAKS if you guys are looking for audiobook narrators who take things seriously, you want someone who's putting as much effort into it as you are. Just about everybody in there is. We're going through the classes. We're learning the art and craft of narration, and I'm taking acting classes.On top of that, I'm out.There's a stage acting troupe that does improv nights, and I'm out at the improv nights and doing different things to get those chops up and working with different coaches on character. Voices and accents are my weakness right now that I'm working on. Find someone who cares as much as you do.

Yeah. And the same from. We are looking for authors who care.You know, the worst thing for me is kind of working with a rights holder who isn't actually the author and who's just trying to get it done as quickly and cheaply and, you know, sort of basically as possible. They just want that listing to tick a box. And that is really demoralizing as a narrator.

Yeah. Awesome. Well, hey, thank you so much for coming on. This is a lot for the audience to chew on.And if you guys are looking for narrators, you're wondering what it's like, what kind of projects people are doing, Alice, where can they find you?

So, licesocketaudio. That's socket with two T's. Yes. My name is Acsockett, Genuinely. And I'm an audiobook narrator, which is a bit ridiculous because I married a socket.So, yeah, Lissocketaudio. And you can find me on Facebook or Instagram.

Awesome. Yeah, give her a follow if you're like, oh, I can't find her. I follow her on my Instagram.I think both of them the killer pros for the podcast and my tender village Vo. Great. Thank you so much for coming on, guys. You know what? Let's go ahead and wrap it up. We're not going to do anything after this.I will see you all next week. Until then, enjoy the process.